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this hasn’t happened And the people who are the most vocal in the press are the biosecurity experts It’s a pity that so few people from the flu field have jumped in front of the cameras especially in the US Q: Did the NSABB recommendations take you by surprise RF: Absolutely This was something that was unprecedented and something I wasn’t counting on at all NSABB has said that the risks outweigh the benefits and now many people are saying: In that case you shouldn’t do this research at all That’s a very logical response But the infectious disease community doesn’t agree with NSABB on this What NSABB should explain better is what the risks are exactly How much bioterrorism have we seen in the past What are the chances that bioterrorists will recreate these viruses And is it really true that publication of this research would give bioterrorists or rogue nations an advantage That’s what I would like to hear from the NSABB Q: You think it doesn’t give them an advantage RF: No Because bioterrorists can’t make this virus it’s too complex you need a lot of expertise And rogue nations that do have the capacity to do this don’t need our information So I don’t think they will benefit from this information at all Meanwhile NSABB gives very little credit to the public health benefits while the entire influenza community is crying just how important that is For them the balance between risk and benefit is very different than for NSABB Q: But NSABB has several infectious disease researchers among its members including Osterholm who’s an influenza expert himself And they hired Robert Webster a flu researcher at St Jude Children’s Research Hospital in Memphis as a special adviser RF: The question is whether that was enough or whether they should have asked more influenza experts If they had asked somebody like Peter Palese of Mount Sinai School of Medicine you would have had a very different answer If you read his piece in Nature—I think he was totally right Osterholm in his article [published yesterday with Henderson] in Science has a very fatalistic attitude He says countries in Asia Africa and the Middle East are unable to do surveillance so they don’t need the data from our paper That’s too fatalistic It would be better to say: How can we help those countries set up a decent surveillance system Osterholm also says that the data make no difference for vaccine development That’s really based on nothing So if that is the influenza expert within NSABB I’d like to see someone with a more positive attitude Q: How will the moratorium affect research at your own lab RF: We were of course working to find out exactly which mutations cause the virus to become transmissible by aerosol That is going to stop now; we were almost done with that but not quite We were working to find out which biological properties of the virus are associated with the mutations that we have found The biological properties of the virus are really more important than the mutations themselves Q: What biological properties are you referring to RF: In a paper in Current Opinion in Virology we said we thought there were a number of things that might make an avian influenza virus transmissible between mammals At the time that was purely hypothetical We said the virus probably has to do better in the upper respiratory tract than deep inside the lungs; it must bind to certain mammalian receptors; it has to reproduce in large amounts to increase chances of transmission; it has to be stable in small droplets and so on Now that we have these mutations we can look at each of these steps to see if they occur And you will see that for each step there are multiple options more possible mutations than just the ones we have found so far So that’s very important Something else that has to happen is evaluating existing vaccines and antiviral drugs Until now we only have looked in vitro whether these virus’s characteristics match existing vaccine strains and whether the virus is sensitive to antiviral drugs We haven’t tried it in our animal model yet Q: You also want to repeat the experiments with more H5N1 strains RF: Yes We did this with one genetic lineage of the H5N1 virus The question is whether all lineages can become aerosol-transmissible If they can’t if it’s just this lineage perhaps you can focus on the region where it came from and try to stop H5N1 outbreaks there to prevent a pandemic If it can happen everywhere you’ve got to work everywhere Q: Would you also like to do similar studies in other avian influenza strains such as H7N7 RF: That is certainly something we’d like to do in the long run But that has a much lower priority because we’re not seeing H7N7 outbreaks at the moment and we’re definitely not going to do that anytime soon; I don’t think that would be wise Q: Have you had requests from other labs to share the virus you have created RF: Not explicitly Everybody understands that this is not the right time to ask Q: But if they did ask what would you do RF: I have an agreement with our funder the NIAID that if such requests were made I will discuss it with them So I can’t decide that on my own Q: Andrew Pekosz recently told Science that a moratorium would be especially harmful for the young scientists who do the actual lab work Do you see that as a problem RF: I think that that is a small problem compared to the other issues I have a postdoc here Sander Herfst who has worked on this extremely hard for 4 years and for whom a terrific breakthrough in his career is on hold But those are individual cases I think the repercussions of the NSABB recommendations for the life sciences are much more important If we get very strict new guidelines for prescreening proposals I think that could hobble the life sciences for years Q: In a policy forum you co-authored and which was published yesterday on Science’s Web site you suggest that you cannot promise to always keep the key details from your paper secret Under what circumstances would you decide to reveal them RF: Well Science and we have said that we’re going to try to adhere to NSABB’s recommendations The US government is now searching for a mechanism to share the key details with people who have a legitimate need to see them but this is far from easy; there are all kinds of legal issues So what that mechanism will look like and whom that information can be shared with is very unclear Meanwhile WHO has said: This research is super-important but it’s just as important that the data are shared or it could mean the end of the Pandemic Influenza Preparedness Framework And rightly so because that framework is very important for surveillance systems Suppose it would collapse if for whatever reason the manuscript couldn’t be shared with certain people Then we’ll have to talk to the US government and WHO That could happen Again you will have to weigh benefits and risks Also as researchers we work very closely with people in Indonesia It would be very unwise for us not to share our results with our close collaborators Q: So if those researchers weren’t approved to make use of the sharing mechanism . 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